I send joyful greetings to all of you, every one of whom has apparently put an email in my box during the past month or so to weigh in on the subject of reverence (or the lack thereof). There are few topics in the LDS community that arouse such heated passions as this one. Everyone knows exactly the way it should be done — which would be great, except that everyone's ideas are different.
Oddly, the week's batch of letters (I read ‘em in the order they were received) seems to focus in on a single theme. This happens more often than not, and is a continual source of wonder to me. This week several of the readers have honed in on the topic of compassion. If we err, they say, this is the direction in which to do it.
Let's see what our readers have to say. The first reader makes reference to the “bricks and mortar bishops" that were mentioned in last week's column:
Bricks and mortar bishops don't do so much to develop spirituality in the ward, as you no doubt already know. I have no idea why. Too busy organizing I guess.
Our present ward has had three or four bricks and mortar, or "Organizer" bishops in a row (possibly more). Ditto the stake presidency. The spirituality in the ward and stake is scary low. The people don't seem to have any understanding or expectation of personal revelation. If they are receiving it, they either don't recognize it for what it is, or are keeping it very much to themselves. Sacrament meeting seems mostly bereft of the Spirit and reverence is a problem here too. These are good people and very dedicated to the church and the gospel. They just seem to be missing it!
It is fascinating to see how the Lord is dealing with it all. Several of the "establishment" bricks and mortar leaders have moved away rather suddenly. These are people you would have expected to be here for life!
As each one announces their departure we look at each other, nod, and say, "Of course!"
At the same time a number of highly spiritual members have moved in from all over the globe. Now our very bricks and mortar (and maybe even "hands off") bishop is moving away! Make no mistake — he was, and is, the right bishop for the time and we have always supported and sustained him. We also are not blind and see his strengths and weaknesses.
With all these changes taking place my husband and I are expecting a surge in spiritual growth, and not incidentally much greater success in the missionary work, which has been pretty much at a standstill. Another one of those things my husband always says is that the Lord will not prepare converts until the ward is ready to take care of the new members. This ward has been far more effective at running new converts off than in retaining them during the time we have been here.
It is most interesting and edifying to watch how the Lord is handling it all. My husband refers to Him as the ultimate multi-tasker. Through it all He allows individuals to make all the mistakes they are inclined to make and yet His purpose just rolls on.
The best answer for "Stifled" would have been for all the members who were "stifled" to talk it over with Heavenly Father and voice their concerns to Him and then just to watch over the following months to see what happened next. But then, I am used to watching for miracles and then seeing them unfold.
Observant in Missouri
Thanks for your thoughts, Observant. You know, very few of us (and I'm speaking of myself here) are able to just sit back and watching for miracles as you do. Most of us are all ready to tell the Lord in our prayers exactly how he should “fix” things. We'd probably be a lot better off if we did as you do and just tell the Lord our concerns and let him set the plans in motion. He always has a better perspective than the rest of us do. Thanks for your gentle reminder.
Recently at the temple, as I waited for an endowment session to begin, I sat with my eyes closed pondering and praying over a very pressing concern. I could soon feel the Lord's calming Spirit bring a much-sought-after peace to my troubled heart and mind. Caught up in the moment, I was unexpectedly interrupted by a friend I hadn't seen in a while. We briefly exchanged enthusiastic handshakes and hugs; then he was on his way. Was I upset because of the interruption? I supposed I could have been but I wasn't.
Were his actions irreverent? To some maybe — but to me his greetings were well intended and added to an enjoyable temple experience that evening. How much more perfect could it have been? Other than a Kirtland Temple-like experience, probably not much. My wife and I and another friend returned home grateful for the opportunity of being there.
I think when we forget that while we dwell in mortality we all live as individuals with temporal interests and needs and to shun those needs in seemingly loftier pursuits, even the justifiable ones, appears to me that we may miss some of the important lessons we've been placed here to learn especially when it involves others.
Wayne Kalama
Azusa, California
Thanks for reminding us, Wayne, that we choose whether to be annoyed or whether to rejoice when we're jarred out of our meditations by the loving greeting of a friend. To me, one of the highlights of the temple is being greeted by the workers and patrons I've come to love over the years. I don't even know the names of many of these people, but I consider them as family members and am always overjoyed when they take the time to come over and see me. There are many good things about temple work, but surely the interaction with like-minded Saints is something the Lord intended when he restored temples to the earth.
It seems that only once has the missionary aspect of this been mentioned and that was in the person being turned away due to smelling of smoke, clothing, and tattoos.
I have lived in many wards across the USA (including Alaska ) due to being in the military. I have seen many investigators come into the meetings (often invited by the members and/or the missionaries). They seem to have two comments. The first is how friendly everyone is. People are attracted to the church and want to return to the meetings because so many people come up and greet them, are friendly enough to make them feel welcome and part of the family.
Visitors also tend to be appalled at the noise in sacrament meeting as compared to the meetings at the churches they have attended. Although this turns some off, those who stay and return are the ones who are greeted before and after the meeting. There has to be a way to greet these investigators while maintaining reverence in the chapel by talking softly (including in the halls while others are in class or other wards are meeting) before and after the meeting and listening quietly while in the meeting.
It also seems to me that many of these comments come from wards where people live close and can meet and talk with each other at almost any time during the week. I lived in one ward where my home teaching route covered more than 90 miles, and mine was not the largest one. Many wards and branches in the Church cover a large geographical area and Sunday at church is the only time the members can see each other or talk to each other. This brotherhood and sisterhood is critical to their well-being to heal from the past week (where they often do not see another Mormon) and prepare for the next week in the world, alone and apart from the support and companionship of other members.
Even in wards/branches with small geographical areas, there are some members who fall into this category. Strict (as opposed to reasonable) restrictions tend to hurt these people, driving them away and denying them some of the spiritual support the church members have required from the earliest days when the Saints were being hounded by mobs and driven from their homes on a regular basis.
Another group that needs to be considered is the elderly — who often have trouble hearing. Most of them need some greeting and companionship (indeed, many can attend only sacrament meeting due to their health), yet they need quiet while the meeting is in session so they can hear and participate. Those who talk (even in whispers) during the meeting rob them of the spirit simply by the noise. I also want to point out that there are those whose spiritual needs are so great they come early so they can listen to the prelude music to get the spirit.
Our members have many different needs and a one-fits-all approach cannot be taken. Whatever approach is taken, it must take into account all of these groups (and probably others I have not mentioned) and meet the needs of all. I have been in reverent wards and in very irreverent wards.
I have seen many approaches taken, some successful and others that failed. Those that have tried to enforce reverence have, in my experience, tended to drive investigators away and make those members on the edge of activity move to some degree of inactivity. The best approaches I've seen have been where the bishopric teaches through special sacrament meeting and example what reverence is and is not. (By the way, while cute, I've generally found that the "reverence child or children" has had no effect whatsoever.)
My wife and I are in our mid- to late-60s and have moved frequently so we have a lot of experience. My wife has been playing for the Primary, Relief Society, or as the ward organist since she was 12 in almost every place we've lived so we are hyper-aware of the reverence problem.
My best suggestion is to listen to what Joseph Smith said when asked how he governs such a large group of people. His reply (paraphrased) was that he taught them correct principles and the members then governed themselves. My opinion is that this bishop, while his heart and intent are in the right place, is doing critical harm to investigators and at least some of the members. Perhaps bringing Joseph Smith's statement to his attention and then helping him to teach (through talks and lessons and example) what reverence is would help resolve the problem.
Again, in my opinion, when reverence (or anything else) is dictated and enforced, we lose the basic principle of the gospel upon which all else relies in that our agency is taken from us.
Larry from San Antonio , Texas
Larry, thanks for being a voice for the investigators and the elderly. These are people who rarely speak up, except to “vote with their feet” if the meetings no longer give them what they need.
You're right — a one-fits-all approach is never going to work for everybody. Perhaps this is why reverence is such a passionate topic whenever it's broached in a discussion such as this one.
Speaking of the elderly, here's a letter from a grandma in Idaho . Of course, I've met grandmas who were in their mid-thirties, so she may be elderly only in the eyes of her grandchildren:
I feel that there needs to be balance. I do remember the general authorities suggesting that flip flops (beach thongs, we used to call them) were not the best choice for church, (and I add, or anything else you would wear to the beach because it causes a whole different mindset!). But specifying that shoes be "closed toe" is, at least in my opinion, off the track. Many nice, dressy shoes are strappy sandals with higher heels, or have peek-a-boo toes, and when you have such large feet as I do, (women's size 11) it is hard to find shoes that work!
Denim skirts do seem to be on the overly casual side, but I remember a story of long ago, about a poor boy who felt too uncomfortable to go to church because the only clothing he had was bib overalls (I don't remember if he had any shirt) and no shoes. When the bishop heard of the problem, he went to the boy and told him that he would wear his own bib overalls to church the next Sunday (probably with a white shirt).
I heard of another boy who had no shoes but wanted to sing in the choir, so he put shoe polish on his feet so they wouldn't stand out!
I believe that most of the people here in the USA have sufficient $ to acquire appropriate clothing for our culture. I also find it very sad, when I hear of those who would look down on someone who bought something from the thrift store. I make a point when someone compliments me on something I'm wearing, if it came from the thrift store, which many do, that I got it at my favorite store — the thrift store!
I think it is good to make suggestions (like let's wear clothing that shows we respect the owner of the house we are visiting) by taking time to dress respectfully. Anyway, that is my two bits!
Gramajane
I love your counsel about balance, and the examples you used were priceless. In my view, the boy who painted his bare feet so they wouldn't stand out was truly acting in reverence for the place he was in. (I wouldn't imagine the people who had to clean the carpet were so happy, though!)
Here's another one:
I must admit reverence in your ward as been taken to an extreme. But here's a thought — why don't you personally go to the person's home and visit them there or call the people or person you would like to visit with after the meetings when you get home, then you can talk and visit for as long as you would like. There are other options.
Personally, I don't think we do enough of this nowadays because we are "too busy." Well then, we should make time! Church isn't the only place we can visit people. If I have heard of someone or has seen someone in need or whatever reason in my ward that I wasn't able to talk to at church for whatever reason, I would go home after the meeting and call them on the phone or go to their home to inquire about them. It seems to work just fine.
A Visitor from the Ward
Thanks for writing, Visitor. I agree that we don't do enough visiting nowadays because we are “too busy.” But I don't foresee us getting any less busy in this life. Despite all the modern conveniences we have, we seem to have less time than people did even a decade or two ago. Maybe the car is the culprit. Now that we have vehicles, we have so many more places we can go.
I can remember when I was a child, how my (nonmember) mother would have a neighbor or two come over every day “for coffee” — which meant for a good, long visit. I don't know of anyone who does that these days, although I do have a few friends who take their morning jogs together when the weather permits.
It may be a good-better-best situation, where we're letting good things get in the way of better things. But for whatever reason, I'm afraid that the days when we could just drop over at someone's house for a visit are nearly extinct in modern society, except for the monthly visit of the diligent visiting teachers.
Speaking of reverence, two readers have written in to describe a way we can distract others without even opening our mouths:
I think I will stay out of the discussion on reverence other than to say that as an organist, many years ago the bishop asked me to stop playing the prelude for a couple of minutes shortly before the meeting was to begin. It's amazing how people will quiet down when the organ is no longer playing and they can actually hear how loudly they are talking or laughing. Once things had quieted down, I then began again to play, this time much more softly. Only once has this method not worked for quieting the room.
About ten years ago our ward was formed from two wards. For the first year or more, I was amazed at the reverence in that ward. I was actually nervous about playing prelude because people were actually listening! As we began to get to know each other better the noise level gradually increased until that reverence was a distant memory. But I still consider that year or so to be one of the best examples of a ward preparing together for the meeting to start.
I am now in the Relief Society presidency and unfortunately I resemble the remark about meeting in the halls. I will do better.
But my main comment is directed at A Reader in Smithfield, Utah . I stopped wearing perfume years ago when a good friend told me that her husband had to double his allergy medication (not a good thing for his body) on Sundays just to get through all the perfume worn to church. Since that time I have known several people who are sensitive to fragrances. My husband had to ask a coworker not to wear his cologne (that he lavishly applied) because it made him nauseous. That is the only fragrance that has bothered him. Not everyone enjoys others' tastes in fragrance or the amount they choose to wear. Nothing smells better than clean.
A Reader in Washington
I had to laugh at part of your letter, Washington . I'm afraid I resemble a whole lot of negative behaviors we read about in Circle of Sisters. Live and learn!
And here's the second letter:
Two quick comments:
No Bishop is in the job forever, and every bishop learns huge lessons while in the job.
Smithfield — on the matter of perfume, it is an environmental poison for many of the people. Don't think of it as something you are being denied, but as your opportunity to give the gift of breath to a ward member you may not know who cannot tolerate perfumes.
I had difficulty with perfume and would go home stiff and with a bloody nose week after week. Then I found out that I was not the only one in our ward. There were five us that I knew about that were sickened by perfume. We asked politely at Relief Society for several weeks for people not to wear perfume and explained to them what it does for us. Our ward is now fairly perfume free. It took a while for the older sisters who did not feel dressed until they had they reeked, but now I think no one misses it.
I wish women would not put perfume on when they go to the temple either. It makes for a very uncomfortable experience for many of those around the perfume wearer. For that matter, leave it off when you go to any enclosed concerts or plays.
Save your perfume for a date night at a fancy restaurant with your hubby.
Debrah Roundy
Rupert, Idaho
Your points about perfume are well taken, Debrah. I'm sensitive to perfume myself, and even people who put on scented lotion during a church meeting can make me more than a little uncomfortable.
As for perfume in the temple, I have two examples of that. I once had to take a woman out of a session because she was so sickened by the perfume worn by one of the other patrons in the session. And I was once on duty in the locker room and saw someone spray her hair with perfumed hairspray. About fifteen minutes later, someone else walked through that area and had an asthma attack from the fumes that were still in the air.
Ladies, perfume isn't conducive to reverence in a closed setting. Whether you dab it on your skin, rub it in as lotion, or spray it in your hair, it can cause a great deal of agony for sensitive persons.
As for the learning curve of bishops, you're right on. The only thing I would add is that we ward members also have a learning curve as we adapt to our changing church leaders. There's something we can learn from each of them.
I have discovered that most problems of the sort raised by the reverence question are always rooted in principles and our failure to follow them.
I also notice that a lot of arguments are rooted in a failure to properly define a term and use its correct meaning.
"Reverence" comes from the root word "revere." To revere is to hold something in high value or esteem.
Do we revere Christ as our savior because of the sacrifice He made on our behalf? Do we revere his servants who dedicate their lives and time to benefit us?
When I see letters you quoted complaining about stifling noise, I am perplexed. Why don't they "get it"?
If someone shouts across the hall or across the chapel to get someone's attention, there is an obvious problem with the person doing the yelling. Church has become a social event — not an
opportunity to commune with the Lord.
Some people come to church with deep problems, looking for encouragement, peace, and comfort. It is impossible for them to get the spiritual nourishment they seek if others are talking like it's half-time at a basketball game.
I live in a very friendly ward. My home teacher was just called as our new bishop. It is not at all uncommon for us to engage in some friendly teasing before or after a meeting — yes, on or near the stand.
My wife and I sit on the front row. Sometimes I listen with my eyes closed so I can shut out visual distractions. No, I'm not sleeping.
A fellow high priest and I often engage in friendly banter before or after a meeting. But we always do it in soft tones, and never do we engage in boisterous laughter.
My son and daughter-in-law met in a singles ward. Now married, they're in a ward with lots of young children. Obviously they're perplexed at the noise. It reminds me of sacrament meetings at BYU — stone silence during sacrament because there were no children.
Years later after my mission and my wife's we had several little ones and I recall sitting quietly on the stand during sacrament (I was ward chorister) and listening to the quiet noise of small children. My mind was led to think how pleased Christ must be to see parents teaching their children to attend meetings while accommodating their fidgetyness. The scripture came to my mind: "Suffer the little children and forbid them not..."
I still haven't forgotten how long an hour seemed when I was Primary age more than a half-century ago.
But lack of reverence in a noisy meetinghouse, I'm inclined to conclude, is a lot less about what's "wrong" with a bishop attempting to address the problem, than about parents who aren't doing their job as parents , teaching the principles of respect, reverence, and obedience to their children.
That tells me parents are becoming much too casual about their relationship with the Lord, and it's showing. They should be very careful, because it's a small step from casualness to apostasy,
and from there to that awful hell Alma and other prophets have always warned us about...
It sounds like a few meetings addressing accountability to the Lord for our attitudes as well as our actions might be in order, you think?
It's not a question of whether the bishop is right or wrong. It's a question of simply revering the Lord and what he's done for us. The least we could do is sit down, shut up, and hear what the spirit has to say. And the spirit doesn't dwell in an irreverent atmosphere.
Or, as Joseph Smith noted: Teach them correct principles, then maybe they'll have sense enough to govern themselves.
Clarke Echols
Loveland, Colorado
You make good points, Clarke. I don't want to elaborate on the noise made by children because we covered that last year and I don't want to open that Pandora's Box again, but I was gratified to see that you remarked on the self-discipline of children who manage to remain even relatively still for the seventy-plus minutes of sacrament meeting. That meeting must seem an eternity to them.
Our last letter today focuses on an idea nobody has mentioned previously, but that may have some merit:
Put me in the group that is appalled by the attempt to stifle ward unity in the name of “reverence.” Obviously people are confused as to the nature of ward family Sunday worship and temple worship. (The structure of sacrament meeting already allows for a hymn and quiet reflection during the passing of the sacrament.)
However, I have several suggestions for the ward members: Pray for the bishop. Pray for yourselves to be obedient (Abraham had it worse!). Realize that the pendulum will naturally swing back as ward leaders change. Patience is a virtue.
Consider talking to the bishop or stake president and encourage him to change the ward schedule so that sacrament meeting is last. Yes, that's what I said. That simple change automatically will take care of much of the reverence problem.
